12-21-2012 | Set Up 4 The Return aka Fallen Angels 6th Trump | 12-29-2012

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Aliens Come From Hell


SHEPHERD'S CHAPEL - 6th Trump Desolator

OK, The book of Enoch was found in Ethiopia in 1768 AD by the Scotsman, James Bruce. This book was not translated from Ethiopian to English until the late nineteenth and early twentieth century (Cannon R.H. Charles translation). Below is the whole of Chapter seven as found in the The Book of Enoch the Prophet (click to review).



1. It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days,that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful (Gen. 6:1-2).

2. And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamored of them, saying to each other: Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.

3. Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise;

4. And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.

5. But they answered him and said: We all swear;

6. And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.

7. Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of Mount Armon.

8. That mountain, therefore, they called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, and bound themselves by mutual execrations.

9. These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Sarakuyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them.

10. Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantation, and the dividing of roots and trees.

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11. And they conceiving brought forth giants (Gen. 6:4-6);

12, Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;

13. When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them

14. And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood (Matt. 24:37-39).

15. Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.

Vanessa, I hope that answers your question. We at the Watchmen Bible Study Group were a study by mail organization, but we have shifted to the Internet with our Bible studies. We are working to bring all the studies to the Net. In fact we have a detailed study that covers your topic in-depth, it is called: The Fallen Angels And Giants of Genesis Chapter Six , you might want to read it. Good bye, and may God bless your study of His Word.

! Important added caution !:  I have noticed that many are confusing certain books as to be God-Inspired Scripture when there is no proofs that they are.  Below is a note to a reader that I feel will be helpful here:

A reader writes:

"...While reading on your site I came across the question on the proper names of the fallen angels. 

Okay... I read the passage you had from the book of Enoch and I am very disturbed- LOL

Either my math is much worse than I know.... or the offspring were WAY TOO BIG for me to even imagine. By our math and 19 or so inches being a cubit (please tell us if we are off) those offspring figured out to be 525 feet!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?! 

That makes me shudder at the mere thought. Of course it would explain WHY the labour of men could not feed them. Sheesh!

And the thought of running from a giant trying to make a meal of you is just terrifying. LOL 

Also... the angels teaching their "wives" incantation the dividing of roots and trees, would that be Caesarean section births? Again... HOW could human women give birth to those...... abominations?"


...That just goes to show you that you cannot trust these books that are outside of Scripture.  Many of them where written by the Gnostics (they attempted to pervert early Christianity; and their works are foundational to the 'New Age' movement) with forged titles and falsely attributed to Authors who never wrote them. 

You are right, the book of Enoch says that the Giants were about 450 feet tall (300 cubits @ 18" per), which of course is absurd.  It seems as though you are under the impression that the Book of Enoch is Scripture?  

Book of Enoch: REAL STORY of Fallen Angels, Devils & Man (NEPHILIM,

Be careful with extra-Biblical works.  I can only recommend the 66 books in the Bible. 

But these other later writings, which include Enoch 1 (& 2) are in a class of literature that is called Psuedipigrapha - which means 'of unknown origin and authorship.'  Not exactly something to base sound Bible study on! 

Also, regarding Apocrypha Books, Apocrypha means 'the hidden.'  Remember 'hidden' does not necessarily mean hidden truth, it can mean hidden because it is spurious.  All things hidden are not necessarily good; the serpent offered Eve hidden knowledge and look what happened to her....

Reading these books (Apocrypha, and especially Psuedipigrapha) can confuse you, and in the future you will remember that you read something somewhere and think it was trusted Scripture from the Bible when in reality it was lies written in some hidden book.  You may end up believing and passing on falsehoods unknowingly. 

See our:

The danger of false books of so-called scripture claiming to be among the true Scriptures of God

Are there books 'missing' from the Bible? 

There is so much to study & to know  | Check it out... There is a lot.  Scroll Down.
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Two Witnesses - Revelations 11 - Spirit of Moses and Elijah


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  1. 6th Trump Fallen Angel Watchman Warnings & Armor

     of YHVH ...

    Dec 29, 2012 – Shepherds Chapel Hotline Update by Pastor Arnold Murray - Mayday 5-1-2012 ... 12-21-2012 | Set Up 4 The Return aka Fallen Angels 6th Trump | 12-29-2012 ......[2] In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king 

    12-21-2012 | Set Up 4 The Return aka Fallen Angels 

    6th Trump | https://sites.google.com/.../12-21-2012-set-up-4-the-return-aka...Dec 21, 2012 – 12-21-2012 | Set Up 4 The Return aka Fallen Angels 6th Trump ... Please visit shepherds chapel DOT com or call 1 800 643 4645 to order ..... will start somewhere between 13-21 Dec 2012 (The end of the Fifth sun)

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Watchman Bible Study Answer - See More - Question #2 Back to top

Where is antichrist (satan) between the time that the Fallen Angels 

(Locust Army) appear - and when he (satan) sets himself up as a false god (false messiah) on the earth?

Betty writes and asks:

Can you explain how in the 5th trump the pit is opened & locust come out; But is satan in the pit also?; Or where is he at this time of the opening of the pit?  At what time is he cast from heaven?

Betty; BTW I love this site!


        Wow! Excellent question, and thank you for the kind words.  Allow us to back up a bit and fully explain the situation you are asking about for any newer Bible students who might happen across this.  As with all the questions we answer on this site, the answers are geared in such a way as to benefit as many people as possible, both newer and more seasoned Bible students.  So don't be offended Betty should it seem as though I am over-explaining something that you already understand.  Take from the answer what you will, and others will also take what they need to know from it.

Ok, in the 5th Trump in the book of Revelation we see the Locust Army (the fallen angels) being released from the Bottomless Pit {Rev 9:2-3}.  

Later we see the beast (satan, antichrist, lucifer, devil, serpent...all the same one entity) that ascended out of the Bottomless Pit make war with the Two Witnesses of God and kill them {Rev 11:7}.

Betty's question, if I read it right is this:  "Do the fallen angels and satan (antichrist) both go into, and come out of the Bottomless pit at the same time?  And whence came they there?"

Ok, this is gonna get complicated, like I said, it is a very good question.  To answer your question about if the fallen angels and satan act in concert (i.e., together), we supply:

Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.  (KJV)


Rev 9:11
11 And they
 [the Locust Army that came out of the Bottomless Pit] had a king [satan the antichrist] over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.  (KJV)

The natural next question would be: "if satan is cast from Heaven WITH his angels {Rev 12:9}, then who are the Locust Army (fallen angels) that are released from the Pit on the earth in {Rev 9:11}".

That brings up the further question as to whether the Bottomless Pit is an actual physical place on earth or a state of degradation and some 'other-worldly' or 'other-dimensional' holding place of spiritual beings with a portal on the earth unknown to mankind.  

We know from the below Scripture that the Bottomless pit is definitely a place that the evil angels and demons do not want to go:

Luke 8:30-31
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they
*1 besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep*2.  (KJV)

Explanations from above Scripture: *1they: =  The devils (demons) that were possessing the man.  *2deep: = This place the demons did not want to go is called "the deep" in this verse, but it is the same Greek word that is translated to "the Bottomless Pit" in other Scriptures, i.e.,  {Rev 9:1,2,11, Rev 11:7, Rev 17:8, Rev 20:1, 3}.  It is one and the same place:  "deep" = Greek word #12 abussos (ab'-us-sos); from 1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of 1037; depthless, i.e. (specially) (infernal) "abyss": KJV-- deep, (bottomless) pit.

There is also 'another' place mentioned in Scripture of a holding place for certain fallen angels, this place is called Tartaros in the Greek.  This word Tartaros is only used once in the entire Bible and it is the place where the fallen angels of {Gen 6:2} are currently being held.  This word was simply translated as "hell" in our English Bibles, but this is not the same as the "hell" used elsewhere in the Bible.  This is a special mysterious place.  

 Jude 1:6
6 And the angels
*1 which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.  (KJV)

Explanations from above Scripture:  *1angels = The fallen angels of {Gen 6:2} (sons of God - the Fallen Angels) that left Heaven and impregnated flesh women {Gen 6:4-5}, causing the Flood of Noah to be necessary to destroy their offspring which were called the Giants (the Nephilim in Hebrew, or: 'the fallen ones').  Below we see them mentioned again.

2 Pet 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels
*1 that sinned, but cast them down to hell*2, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;  (KJV)

Explanations from above Scripture:  *1angels = The same fallen angels of {Gen 6:2}.   *2hell: = Greek word #5020 tartaroo (tar-tar-o'-o); from Tartaros(the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:  KJV-- cast down to hell.

So in this we see that there are different places, or different 'levels' of confinement for angels who sin against God.   Some in Heaven {Rev 12:9}, some in the Bottomless pit {Rev 9:2-3...}, and some in Tartarus {2nd Pet 2:4}.  Are all these places in the same place?  Are all these places the same place?  We don't know, at least I don't know, I guess that there are some things that man isn't to know.   But when it's all said and done we shall know, because in Heaven we will be "as the angels" {Mt 22:30} in spiritual bodies with full recall of the first earth age - that is the reason that God deals so harshly with a fallen angel, satan being the chiefest one. 

It would remove a lot of difficulty if we were to allow that there are different 'classes' of satan's angels (as there are of God's Angels) and that they have different specific duties to be carried out at certain different times (as do God's).  Would it not?

And do not confuse the first beast of {Rev 13:1} and 'it's' "42 months" (3½ years);  with the "42 months'  (3½ years) of the second beast and his 'crew' in {Rev 11:2 & 13:11}, this later being the same as the "time, times, and a half" (3½ years) of {Dan 12:7}.  

To further complicate matters, the time of the second 3 1/2 years has been shortened to 5 months in {Rev 9:5 & 10} by the grace of God for His Elects sake, spoken of by Jesus in  {Mt 24:21-22, & Mk 13:19-20}.

There are two beasts, one (the first of {Rev 13:1}) is the one-world religious/political system: "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." {Rev 13:1}, it is not supernatural but rather simply a corrupt one-world system (new world order) that has united after some global near catastrophe (deadly wound {Rev 13:3}), and it rises up out of the sea (the peoples {Rev 17:15} waters = peoples, nations):  "saw a beast rise up out of the sea" {Rev 13:1}.  

The second beast is the antichrist (satan): "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." {Rev 13:11}, he rises up out of the earth (Bottomless Pit): " And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth" {Rev 13:11}.  This event is synonymous with: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." {Rev 12:9}

Perhaps a brief synopsis would be helpful to tie this all together:  

The one-world system (first beast {Rev 13:1}) which is in place in the end-time, suffers some unstated catastrophic event (deadly wound).  The second beast (satan, antichrist) appears on the earth with his angels and mends the rift thus solidifying the one-world system (first beast) under his direct control.  The Elect of God resist this system all the way, are arrested (probably as enemies of God, the false god antichrist who is no god!) and testify at councils against antichrist.  The two Witnesses of God {Rev chapter 11} witness against satan's one-world system which now worships satan as the impostor christ, the antichrist.  The world believes that satan is in fact the prophesied Messiah and most worship him in ignorance - at least at first.

The antichrist kills the Two Witnesses of God thus violating the absolute order given in among other places, in:  {Rev 9:4}  "...but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."   Three and a half (there's that number again!) days later Almighty God raises the Two Witnesses back to life and they ascend into Heaven in front of the whole world.  We are now within one literal hour of the Apocalyptic cascade of events that constitute the end of this flesh age - the Second Advent of Jesus Christ Son of God with great wrath and fury.  

Fallen Angels-Shepherds Chapel

Satan is bound in the Bottomless pit for one-thousand years - the Millennium, then the loosing of satan again from the Bottomless Pit to test those taught in the Millennium, satan and those following him encircle the saints of God and prepare to destroy them, but God intervenes and devours His enemies, satan is cast into the Lake of Fire, then comes judgment day, those who have not overcome are cast into the Lake of Fire where satan is, the new Heaven descends to earth, the Lake of Fire is dried up with it's inhabitants so thoroughly blotted out that there is no memory of their very existence even, and then God dwells with His children (us) on this earth as He did before the fall of satan and the rebellion in the first earth age.  All that offends is gone, and the age is eternal.  Praise God!

Thank-you for a most difficult question and God bless!

Nick; WBSG - Anti Christ Fallen Angels Q & A - Visit their Q  & A

Satan and the Fallen Angels

  1. "There Were GIANTS in the Earth in Those Days . . ."

    What happens when a spirit being appears as flesh, and unites with a mortal ... Men of gigantic stature are also mentioned as existing after the Flood of Noah's time. ... that,' i.e.after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels...
  2. Satan and the Fallen Angels Frames

    It is the New Testament that informs us what happened to the fallen angels... to their "first estate," spirit bodies, by the flood waters, and then God enforced a ... in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh.
  3. Are the demons the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim?

    What happened to the spirits of the Nephilim after they were destroyed in the flood? ... With the understanding that the sons of God were the fallen angels, and that ... possible post-flood Nephilim (Genesis 6:4; Numbers 13:33), after the flood?

April Thompson Woodard6:22am Nov 6
galactic alignment..is the black hole where the fallen angels come from?

12-21-2012 Ancient.Aliens.SEASON 4 Episode 02.The.Doomsday.Prophecies.

There Were GIANTS in the Earth in Those

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The 'one-third' souls of Rev 12:4 and the 'fallen angels'

Brenda writes: [Bracketed text inserted by WBSG]

Dear Nick,

Your response to my query about Strong's #3045 [knew -yada`, referring to question #5 below], was a true blessing to my daughter, but I must tell you that I learned as much as she did.  A sincere God Bless You! 

And while I have your attention, the article that you posted "Facts are Facts" by Mr. Freedman blew me away. I hope everyone will take time out to do a study [Referring to: FACTS ARE FACTS — THE TRUTH ABOUT KHAZARS (the so-called Jews).].  Again thank-you. 

I hope you don't mind but I have another question.  I study with Pastor (A fine Christian Minister) [The Shepherd's Chapel] on channel 62, today he said that he believed that the third of (Gods Children) [Rev 12:4a] that joined satan in the attempted take-over [The Katabolè, see "The Foundation of the World"was living in this generation of the fig tree [Our generation, the final generation. Mark 13:28-30].  If this is what I understood, these are not the same ones as the fallen angels that seduced women [Gen 6:1-4], Am I correct?  My understanding was that the fallen angels were being held with satan, until they were [to be — future yet] cast out with satan [Rev 12:7-9] when he returns playing Jesus [2nd Thes 2:3-4].  Am I correct in thinking that, that third must be born of woman to decide whether or not to love God.  Now having said that, would this not be considered a second chance?

Sincerely, Brenda 


Hi Brenda, 

        I placed some helps in brackets in your above correspondence, as some newer students might not understand the things to which you refer to.  I agree with Pastor (A fine Christian Minister) about the one-third living in our generation. For one thing, it would only be fair to subject them to the antichrist (satan) that they followed the first time; for it is solely because of this that we are even in this flesh age.  And secondly, look at people, I mean look into their hearts.  You have 10 & 12 year olds raping and killing.  At ten 10 or 12 I didn't even know what a girl was, much less think to force her, and kill? And you have gangs (even girl gangs now) where the initiation is to go out and shoot someone.  Just for the hell of it!  And if they die, they die, if they don't they don't. These people are just plain rotten way deep inside.  There is no other way to explain it.

        But as you suspected, the one-third are not the fallen angels. The fallen angels are angels (spiritual beings, not flesh, per say), the one-third are people in the flesh now.  Allow me to make a quick explanation for the newer student:  In the world that was (2nd Pet 3:6 , Gen 1:1) all souls lived, we were all alive in the first earth age.  Then satan rebelled (Isa 14:12-14) and caused one-third of the souls (God's children) to join him in a rebellion and attempted take-over of the Throne of God (Rev 12:4a).  At that time, we were all alive yes, but we were in spiritual bodies (1st Cor 15:44).  

        God promptly destroyed that first earth age (Gen 1:2a, See also "The Foundation of the World" ) and recalled all souls back to Him, so to speak.  At that time satan (Lucifer, the devil, the dragon,... he's the same one entity) was judged to eternal death, "...and never shalt thou be any more" (Ezek 28:16-19).  This judgment has not yet been executed, but is written of in Rev 20:10). 

        God now had a dilemma on His hands, what to do with the one-third of His children who joined satan and rebelled against God?  Well God chose not to destroy those one-third of His children as He had sentenced satan to destruction.  look at it like this: "if you had three children, could you bring yourself to kill one of them, no matter how they had betrayed you?" 

        So God created this second earth age in where the souls would be tried again.  Is this a second chance, you ask?  Yes it is.  Will there be any more second chances in this age?  No,"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb 9:27).  This entire age, this world, and the existence that we know is one big second chance.  But not all fell in the first earth age, not all followed satan.  But all must go through this second age, this flesh life, wherein every soul is born innocent into this world having no recollection of that first age, nor whether they stood or fell during that first age.

        Unfair?  Well, we know that God is not unfair!  And I wonder which of us would have resent it, or would have objected if God decided to give the one-third of our brethren a second chance by running this second age?  Not that I say that God acted by committee.  But we are all here nonetheless.

        And before we get into too much into finger-pointing at the one-third who followed satan — the other two-thirds didn't do so hot either.  For if all of the other two-thirds had remained steadfast, the rebellion would have been put down without requiring God's drastic intervention (the termination of an entire age).  Perhaps the great majority of those remaining two-thirds were like the great majority of people today; i.e., while they are not inherently evil, they are monumentally indifferent.

God bless!


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Question #5
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Where is satan today?


RW asks:

How can satan be on earth (Job 1:7) and be in Heaven chained by Michael?


Hello RW:

        As you correctly state, satan WAS on earth {Job 1:7}, but he is now incarcerated in Heaven by Archangel Michael {Rev 12:7}.  I understand your question, but when were the events in Job, and when are the events in Revelation?  You have to "rightly divide the Word" {2nd Tim 2:15} as to time frames when the various events occur. 

        The book of Job is actually the oldest book in the Bible (See: The Companion Bible; in the preface to the book of Job).

        Satan used to be able to roam the earth, but no more!  We know that satan was in the Garden of Eden (as the serpent), and then as you state, we saw him again in the book of Job.  When he was taken out and imprisoned in Heaven is not clear, but some feel that it was in {Mt chpt 4 & Lk chpt. 4} when, after tempting Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus told satan: "Get thee hence, Satan" {Mt 4:10}. I feel that is reasonable.  Jesus tells satan the get "hence", which means "get behind me".  Jesus is now in Heaven, so if satan is behind Him, then satan is in Heaven (incarcerated by Archangel Michael {Rev 12:7}).

Matt 4:10-11
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. (KJV)

God Bless!


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Question #4
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 What does Jesus mean by "a thief in the night"?


Jane states:

I see what your saying, and I beg to differ extremely with you.  The thief in the night to me is the rapture of the church, nothing else.  After the 7 years, we do expect him anyway so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected.

Matthew 24:30 - See Also Zechariah 12:10-14.  This refers to His 2nd Coming with the Saints old and the raptured saints.  See Also Zechariah 14:5 - We come back with him at that time. 


Hello Jane:

You wrote:

"I see what your saying, and I beg to differ extremely with you. The thief in the night to me is the rapture of the church, nothing else.  After the 7 years, we do expect him anyway so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected."

        Jane, the 'thief in the night' Scripture {1st Thes 5:2;  2nd pet 3:10} is reference to the Second Advent, not some Rapture.  Besides, we expect Jesus to come even now, does that mean He won't come because we expect it?  You seem to be reasoning that He can't come "as a thief" (unexpectedly) because: "After the 7 years, we do expect him anyway so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected."  Christina, that 'doesn't hold water' my friend.

        What you are trying to do is to force a Rapture in the Scriptures that is simply not there.  Take all your thoughts on the matter, and pretend for a moment that there isn't going to be a Rapture - they will all make sense to you then.  The Scriptures cannot contradict and do not each other.  Allow me to share an excerpt about the "thief in the night" Scripture.  This work isn't mine, but I agree with it and don't feel that it can be improved upon:

By Dave Ramey:

"Concerning Jesus coming as 'a thief in the night', just WHO will it be like that to?  Isn't that an analogy for when a 'thief' is trying to break into your home at midnight, where one is spiritually watching and ready, while the other is surprised because they are spiritually asleep?  If that's not what the 'thief in the night' analogy is about, then what did Paul mean with the following:

1Thes 5:1-4
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.   (KJV)

So WHO will this 'sudden destruction' and this 'travail' be upon?  Isn't it for those who are not spiritually awake at midnight, not knowing the 'times and seasons' of our Lord's coming?

1 Thes 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.  (KJV)

And with this verse by Paul, isn't it to those of God's elect who will be aware of the main subject of 'times of seasons' of Christ's return?  Therefore, as Paul stressed in this verse 4, Christ's coming will be no surprise to His true followers, for they are aware of the 'signs' and events ('times and seasons') our Lord taught us all throughout His Word." (End of excerpt)

        What Dave was politely saying above is that those who are waiting for a Rapture are going to follow the first supernatural being who comes to earth claiming to be The Messiah from God.  The only problem is that satan comes first as the antichrist claiming to be the Messiah BEFORE the true Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent.  The Rapturist however, will not know this and will end up worshiping the wrong one.  So then when the true Jesus Christ returns at His Second Advent, He will be 'quite the surprise' to the Rapturist (among many others of course).  

Ok Jane, then then you supply:

"Matthew 24:30 (1)- See Also Zechariah 12:10-14 (2).  This refers to His 2nd Coming with the Saints old and the raptured saints.  See Also Zechariah 14:5 (3)- We come back with him at that time." 

Oh, really?  Let's look at each one:

(1).  Matthew 24:30:  Ok Jane, come-now.  You supply verse 30 and attribute it to a rapture, but WHEN does verse 30 happen?!?!? look at verse 29!

Matt 24:29-30
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (KJV)

Jane, you simply can't take this Scripture apart and move time sequences to fit a Rapture theory.

(2).  Zechariah 12:10-14:  Where is a Rapture in this Scripture?  It is talking about the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. You should notice a familiar phrase:

Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (KJV)

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye 
[not just Rapturists!] shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (KJV)

Ps 22:16
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (KJV)

John 19:34
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (KJV)

(3).  Zechariah 14:5:  This is a prophecy of the Second Advent, yes, a 'type'', but you suppose that these "saints" are Rapture "saints" because you have been predisposed to believe that.  Saint means ''set-aside one'', chosen ones.  Every time the Bible mentions saints you seem to automatically read "Rapture saints", Jane, you cannot force that into Scripture, the context will not allow it.  You must clear your head of the false Rapture teachings before you can hope to once again read the Scriptures as they are written.  You unconsciously ''taint'' every Second Advent Scripture to mean, not a Second Advent, but a pre-second Advent Rapture that just simply isn't there.  And it really does bug me when you Rapturists call yourself "Saints!"  But anyway, below is the Scripture you mentioned, how can you read a Rapture in this verse?  And you're not alone, stuff like this is what the whole Rapture doctrines are built around.  One almost has to want to be deceived to actually go for this stuff!  

Zech 14:5
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (KJV)

        You are also under the misconception that the dead are still in a hole in the ground in the cemetery, they are not, their souls are with God since the instant of death.  It is those among the deceased that were overcommers over the generations that shall return with Christ as "Saints." to help US!

        Stick with it Jane, and quit going to the Rapture doctors for Bible instruction or you will continue to make errors like the above.  Your doing fine, your looking and asking (or stating), but trust the Scriptures as written, pray to God open them up to understanding, He will.  Take your time and check everything I am telling here in your Bible.  It is just so difficult to un-teach the misconceptions that have been taught about the Rapture.  It is far easier to teach a new student who has no misconceptions firmly planted in his/her mind.  But stick with it, what we are doing is pleasing to God, we are acting like those of Berea who found favor: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11).  And we are complying with the command: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." {2 Tim 2:15}.

Watchmen Bible Study Group

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Question #3
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What is the difference between a Post-Tribulation Rapture theory and no Rapture at all?


        John asks us if we at WBSG believe in a 'Post-Tribulation' Rapture.  Below is our answer to him.  (PS:  the short answer is NO!)

        John, You asked if we were Post-Trib Rapture believers.  No, we are 'never-rapture'.   Jesus Christ comes for ALL God's children, the blessed and the self damned, all at the same time, at the seventh trump "we shall all be changed" {1 Cor 15:51}, at the Second Advent out of the only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture:

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep [die prior to Second Advent], but we shall all be changed 
[ALL those alive at the Second Advent],
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump 
[the seventh, when Christ returns at his Second Advent]: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [in our spiritual bodies, not rotting to dust like our flesh bodies do - they 'corrupt'], and we shall be changed. (KJV)

        There are only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture {Zech 9:9 (First Advent); Zech 9:10 (Second Advent)}.  This is also why Jesus, when reading from the book of Isaiah in the Synagogue in {Lk 4:17-21} had to stop reading at the middle of verse {Isa 61:2} when He was reading the Scripture that spoke of Him, because the words that came after "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord"  would not be fulfilled until His Second Advent:

Luke 4:17-21
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. (KJV)

        Below is the Scripture Christ was referring to, the words in blue bold are the words that He could not finish reading to them at that time and still have been able to say that: "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears"  because it will not be fulfilled until the Second Advent:

Isa 61:1-3
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
 and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified
. (KJV)

        We at WBSG teach that there is no selective taking out, no partial Second Advent , no pre-second ''Advent'' Advent, not three Advents but only two, and the Bible declares the same. 

        Perhaps if you review your thinking on the matter, you may find that you also do not believe in a Rapture, but rather, you simply believe what the Bible says about the chronology of end-time events:

  • The Second Advent with Armageddon at that moment & ALL changed to spiritual bodies (still not judged) - man NEVER again in the flesh body.
  • Then the 1000 year Millennium teaching time {Rev 20:1-6}.
  • Then satan loosed a little while to test those taught in Millennium {Rev 20:7-8}.
  • Then God destroys those who follow satan after the Millennium, satan cast into Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as Hell) {Rev 20:9-10}.
  • Then Judgment Day {Rev 20:11-13}.
  • Then all that offend destroyed in Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as Hell) {Rev 20:13-15}.
  • Then the Heaven Age - eternal {Rev 21:1-end of Bible} (till the end time which never ends).

No Rapture in there is there!!!

God Bless!

Watchmen Bible Study Group

The katabole (the destruction of the first earth age)


Chuck writes:

I was surprised by your interpretation of the first few verses of the book of Genesis.  I think it's sad that men can't find common understanding between the natural science and the science of God.  I think the author of this study has taken some liberties in translation, that are not necessarily correct. However, your Study Group remains a favorite. Thanks



        I'm glad you enjoy the site, and thank-you for the feedback.  I see you are having a problem with the Three Earth Ages study (WHEN WAS THE BEGINNING).  May I start by saying that true science and the Bible do not disagree.

        I am the author of the Three Earth Ages study, and while I respect your right to disagree with any given point, I feel led to show you a little deeper into the destruction of the first earth age and the reconstitution of the second earth age (our present one), of course you know that the Heaven age is the third 'earth' age.

        There is a very curios saying throughout the Word of God, it is these phrase: "from before the foundation of the world."  Apostles Peter, Paul, John, and even Jesus Christ used this phrase.  But what does it mean?  I mean, how can there be something BEFORE the "foundation of the world"

        Of course it is referring to before the foundations of this world, or better put, before the foundations of this world AGE.  It is referring to a dispensation of time before our present one.  There are not three separate earths, as one might misunderstand it to mean when the Bible says, for instance: "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" {Rev 21:1}.  It is the same earth, same Heaven, different time.   But back to "from the foundation of the world."

        There is a key to understanding in that phrase, it is found in the word translated to: "foundation" in our King James Bible.  It is the Greek word: "katabole."  We shall study deeper into that word.  It would have been better translated to "over throw," or, "destruction" as we shall see by it's own definition.  Please understand that the below definition for "foundation(Katabole)" does not necessarily apply every time you see the English word "foundation", for there are several different Greek words that translators simply rendered "foundation" and they all have distinct meanings.  Further down below, we shall supply all eleven verses in the Bible where the word appears.  But let's observe the definition of the word katabole

foundation:  Greek word #2602 katabole (kat-ab-ol-ay'); from #2598 (see below); a deposition, i.e. founding; figuratively, conception: KJV-- conceive, foundation.

Greek word #2598 kataballo (kat-ab-al'-lo); from #2596 (see below) and #906 (see below); to throw down: KJV-- cast down, lay.  

This word kataballo is used individually only twice in the Bible:

Every occurrence of kataballo Greek word #2598 in the Bible (KJV):

2 Cor 4:9
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down
 [kataballo], but not destroyed  (KJV)

Heb 6:1
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying 
 [kataballo] again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God  (KJV)

Greek word #906 ballo (bal'-lo); a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense):  KJV-- arise, cast (out), X dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust. Compare 4496.

Greek word #2596 kata (kat-ah'); a primary particle; (prepositionally) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive case, dative case or accusative case] with which it is joined): KJV-- about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [daily-], down, every, (+far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from ... to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), ... by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution, or intensity.

        Hopefully you can see by the in-depth definition of the word translated to "foundation" regarding our study that the word means the overthrow, the destruction of that first earth age and the beginning of the second (our current one).  Very little is written in the Bible about that destruction of the first earth age.  A couple places that do, are {2nd Pet 3:4-7, and , Jer 4:23-27}.  I hope that helps you to understand why there is a division in the middle of {Gen 1:2} across two separate earth ages.

Below, the first earth age is in blue and the second earth age in red:, divided by || for the color blind:

Gen 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
 || And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.  (KJV)

Below is every occurrence of the word katabole (foundation):

Every occurrence of  katabole, Greek word #2602 in the Bible (KJV):

Matt 13:35
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. (KJV)

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: (KJV)

Luke 11:50
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; (KJV)

John 17:24
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before thefoundation of the world. (KJV)

Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (KJV)

Heb 4:3
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from thefoundation of the world. (KJV)

Heb 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (KJV)

Heb 11:11 
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. (KJV)

1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (KJV)

Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (KJV)

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (KJV)

Below is Appendix #146 from the The Companion Bible that explains this Katabole of the first earth age:

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8 MINUTES OF ENERGY on 12-21-2012 - SPEAR OF DESTINY - Chumash - 10000 BC - In the begining

Are the strange  energetic emanations from the center of 
the Milky Way detected by Dr. Scott Hyman the real cause of so 
visible changes that are occurring in our solar system?  
−The Mayas would clearly say: Yes! 

They will also say that colossal emissions of “an unknown form of energy” will 
arrive from the center of the Milky Way, which will change the fundamentals of the 
physics of our world, new material and immaterial conditions for life, which will last 
till the end of the next cycle. 

On  21.12.2012 according to the  ancient Maya records, humanity will enter into a 
New Era of Higher Consciousness. It is interesting that at this moment all that are 
present on the planet are experiencing more or less a shift in Consciousness. 
In 2012 we all have a chance to transcend the old ways and to learn to live in peace 
and harmony with all the rest that exist in the Cosmos.  

That process of the rebirth to  half-etheric beings, according to the input that was 
generated from the pictograms in the crops all over the world, but mostly in the UK, 
will start somewhere between 13-21 Dec 2012 (The end of the Fifth sun) and it will 
be complete on 28 March 2013 which in fact is the end of the sun-Venus calendar
and in the same time the start of Sixth sun. 
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